12/05/2009

Weekend Update: A Little of the Personal, along with the Countering

Interesting morning as alway. Rick snoring away on the couch, thinking that Saturdays are for sleeping in. Don't blame him. The littlest garden girlie keeps bringing her considerable pile of stuffed care bears into the living room and dropping on the floor, looking at them for a minute before picking them up and taking them back to the playroom before starting it all over again. The bigger garden girlie just read the children's bible cover to cover the last couple days, and has been chatting nonstop about how many stories were in it, and then proceeding to go into deep detail about each one of them,. The bright boy, who will be 20 in 10 days, is in his room watching Saturday morning cartoons. Mabel sitting on the printer next to my chair, staring me down. Other cats are off doing their various staring at kids. They watch us like they are taking notes so that they can report to their superior, you know? Humans engaged in blah blah instead of petting us.

My brothers are both home from their respective surgeries and hospital stays. It looks like tumor boy will be just fine. I've got to come up with a new nickname for him, acrylic plate boy doesn't have quite the right ring to it. Fredless boy? Whatamess? Plastic head boy? You know, how do you strike just the right tone to convey your sisterly love? I am so profoundly grateful that baby brother is going to be okay, that there is no sign that it was cancer. It looks to have been a dermoid cyst (we'll have to wait for path to verify). Bagless Wonder (colostomy reversed just fine) is doing really well, handled it all pretty darn good. I was sitting with him watching a law and order episode which dealt with bipolar (not well, either), and he looked over at me and asked if he had that. Just the week before a childhood friend visited with us and he was able to say to the friend that he had bipolar but was asymptomatic, so it was interesting for him to talk about it again. Self-reflection is not something he's always great about engaging in. I confirmed that, yes, he had bipolar (whether the schizophrenia was drug-induced and has now resolved five years later, I did not go into), that was why he was on medicine for it, but on the medicine, he wasn't having any symptoms. I enjoyed my visits with him while my mom was in another town with tumor boy and his surgery. He was calm, talkative (he has not been for nearly five years, since his stroke and subsequent speech difficulties), and good company. This is a huge thing. Huge.

The semester here is winding down. This week coming up is finals, both for me to give and to take, so I will be stepping away from the blogosphere until Wednesday so that  I can grade papers, close up shop on the semester, and study far past my heart's content on A & P and chemistry. Isn't that something? Committing to just not looking at this for a few days while I let the real world take over?

In other news, Craig's decided to talk to me over here. What a pleasant surprise to see him back at Countering, even if some of the exchanges are heated. Friends, like Craig says, can disagree. Heck, it wouldn't be any fun if we were in lockstep; what would we talk about, right?  Of course, Craig is also busy over at Huff talking to me, as well.

On Huff, Craig's still taking me to task for Becky's site:
"Really? So the "C" word is not misogynistic? Really?


What about the other very rude and very personal attacks against John Stone and a few others..ca­lling them certain parts of the male anatomy. Yeah, perfectly fine with those comments, aren't ya?"

Yet, he posts this over here:

"Kenny sniveled:

""Fere If doh bontrobersy"

This is all wrong. Fricative articulations, such as the B and F sounds, are not possible under the circumstances imagined by Kim. It would sound more like "Air ik go gonkaherky.""

Ah, I see. So, Ken, you have a lot of experience with "having your mouth full" (wink wink) while talking. Well, it's pretty obvious that you don't know how to keep it shut, so I'm pretty sure that Orac can put whatever he wants in it."


So, let me just say again: Ken and Craig are grown men. I call them both friends, because that's the kind of gal I am. Heck, I'd even be Roger's friend. I am not refereeing  between them and my refusal to do so is not an indication of my preference.

I call out AoA and other like sites on their woo, not because they use foul language. I love physioprof and my crush on him because of his way with words is probably only exceeded by Thelma's crush on him, so the accusation that I have a problem with obscenities is frakking asurd. I tend not to really cuss here because I have students who do occasionally READ this. I most assuredly can cuss like a sailor, but try to keep that restricted to where it is appropriate to do so. I also try to make sure I comment and write from a rational rather than enraged disposition. Having hissy fits makes you the object of laughter, not respect. Cold, hard logic carry the day every time, and you have the added bonus of being able to say you took the high road.

Okay, Craig: I am done commenting at Huff. I don't have time, so I'm going to give you my thoughts about where we are so far:

You are locked into your position. Fine and dandy. Stay there. Be happy in your anger. I think you're spinning your wheels.

Thousands of people believe aliens abducted them Thousands believe Elvis is alive. Thousands believe the moon landing was faked. Thousands believe the earth is flat. Thousands believe the holocaust didn't happen. They believe mind control is possible.

People believe all sorts of things. Doesn't make it real. We are hardwired to come up with causes for the things that happen to us. No way around it. A happened in vicinity to B, so A causes B. Doesn't mean that isn't the case sometimes. Doesn't mean it is, either. Science helps sort out when things like vaccines cause certain side effects. It's how the first rotavirus vaccine got pulled. It caused 15 cases of intussusception. It was discovered and pulled.

I am not discounting your story. I have posted it here. I have supported you. Period.

Those thousands of parents you stand by and insist have vaccine-induced autism in their children: how many of them had the vaccines, no reaction, kid gets diagnosed a year later, they've heard Jenny, read AoA and make a connection after the fact?

Your argument that thousands of people can't be wrong is bogus. Our recollections are notoriously and scientifically shown to be horrendously inaccurate. Period. It's time for you to pick up some books dealing with memory, with cognitive heuristics, and consider that what we remember can be wrong.

Now, I have shit to do that's far more important than banging my head on the wall. And that ain't sulking; that's acknowedging that there's no point in continuing this argument with you right now when the real world demands are far more important.

Show me where Orac called you a liar, and then explain to me why that should be shocking to me. After all, if you can blow off your angry rants as venting steam, surely Orac could use that as well?

Misogyny is directed to women. Writing pot, kettle c**nt; well, that's funny. It is. Unless you're the c**t. Bad Becky. Potty-mouthed Becky. Noticed you have a potty mouth, too. Potty mouths aren't my concern.

My problem with AoA is lies. Misinformation. The damned holocaust references. The insinuation that women, whatever their position, if they disagree with the notion that vaccines must cause autism are sucking someone's d**k, intellectually raped or drinking cool-aid, well that's in poor taste at best and dismissive of the idea that women are capable of thought and making up their own minds. The promotion of the idea that autistic people are not real people; the real child was stolen and needs to be recovered. Dangerous quack treatments. Working to subvert people being protected from preventable diseases. The idea that death is preferable to autism. The lack of recognition that their words impact autistic adults and marginalize them. And more.

If you're good with all that because they support you, then by all means, you are free to remain within their loving arms. After all, you respect them.

Onto other things and closing thoughts:
Louise and Thelma took a look at ChildHealthSafety yesterday, exploring interconnections between John Stone and Clifford Miller. It's a rousing read, as usual.



Best: if you're good, your comments can stay. I'm still checking email, so if you get nasty, I'll take the time away from my other tasks to come delete you. Deal?

21 comments:

Squillo said...

So glad things are going well on the personal front.

How about: "Craniotoboy"?

kathleen said...

I still stand by "Fredless Head"

Squillo said...

In general, I try not to get too embroiled in who's said what nasty thing to whom. (Outright lies are a different story.) We're all passionate, and each of us says stuff that might not be so conducive to... um... intelligent debate.

It's fun to read snarky stuff from folks one agrees with, and that is okay on blogs and other outlets for personal expression.

The problem I have with AoA, is that they are trying to have it both ways: they're a blog, but they're the "Web Newspaper of the Autism Epidemic." As a "newspaper," they aren't off the mark in running an occasional cartoon, but the Thanksgiving thing was a piss-poor editorial decision. It led some of their supporters to question their judgment, which is likely why it was later pulled. (They really ought to run an apology--to their readers, not necessarily to the subjects of their "satire"--would be good editorial practice.)

Moreover, as Managing Editor, Kim Stagliano should have been much, much more circumspect with her public commentary in her "newspaper." She ostensibly represents a news organization, and her comment reflects extraordinarily poorly on it as such.

So which is it, AoA? Are you a "newspaper" interested in dispensing factual info, or a personal blog representing the thoughts of your writers? If it's the former, I'd say you have some serious editorial soul-searching to do. If the latter, perhaps a change in masthead (and de-listing from Google News) would be in order.

AutismNewsBeat said...

Actually Craig, I studied speech therapy in college. I know a lot of other big words, but I've learned not to used them on you. Yet more evidence of my good intentions. Welcome back.

AutismNewsBeat said...

Your argument that thousands of people can't be wrong is bogus. Our recollections are notoriously and scientifically shown to be horrendously inaccurate.

So it's possible to misremember something without being a liar? Well bust my buttons.

cawill said...
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KWombles said...

Squillo, I like that. I'll vary it with Fredless Head.


Obviously, I've come up for air in my studying, Craig, to admit I was wrong about being able to have polio and not be symptomatic,as well as to post the penal code of Texas on harassment as a nice reminder of why civility pays.

So, are you calling me a shithead or Ken?

cawill said...

Ken. I have too much respect for you to call you that, Kim

AutismNewsBeat said...

Now if he would just respect himself. Oh well, baby steps.

cawill said...
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AutismNewsBeat said...

So you're a communist and a jihadist? They must love you in Texas! ; -)

cawill said...
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cawill said...
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cawill said...

Yes, Mr. Reibel, especially seeing your previous defamatory comment, I suggest that you do not refer to me or even talk to me ever again. I will also not say anything to you or even mention you in any of my correspondence.

Let me make this clear; do not ever talk to me again. Do not respond to my comments, and I will not respond to yours. I've asked you this once before and you didn't listen. This is the last time I will ask you. Am I clear?

AutismNewsBeat said...

It's clear you are unable to answer reasonable questions that challenge your deeply held beliefs about vaccines and autism. It's also clear that you don't understand what "defamation" is.

I can't promise I will never respond to one of your misguided and ill-informed comments ever again. What I can promise is that I won't run afoul of the T_____ statue defining harassment. I respectfully request that you do the same.

Are we cool now?

cawill said...

"I can't promise I will never respond to one of your misguided and ill-informed comments ever again. What I can promise is that I won't run afoul of the T_____ statue(sic) defining harassment. I respectfully request that you do the same."

Learn what harrassment laws are. Don't ever talk to me, respond to my comments, or talk about me ever again. Last time.

AutismNewsBeat said...

Can I use your initials, or just repeat something that you write, but without attribution?

AutismNewsBeat said...
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KWombles said...

For heaven's sake.

Craig, you probably can't keep him from talking about you, from a legal standpoint. And harassment laws are fairly specific, so I'm not sure the mere responding of a comment rises to harassment under the law.

Ken, rise above. Quit needling him. On the whole your comments aren't as inflammatory as his are, but you know Craig is easy to set off and at times appear to do it intentionally, like just now.

How about you ignore each other for awhile?

Alright, so I'll address this here.
The Texas Penal Code on Harassment is up to the right because my husband is a sheriff's deputy. He read Craig's first post with the hospitals as threatening. He pulled out his thick-ass law book (not its technical term) and told me to put it up on the right of my page so that no one could argue he or she didn't know what he/she was doing violated a criminal statute in Texas.

I personally wondered why ya'll would look at hospitals, but I wasn't reading for subtext. Until Ken's response, when I handed the laptop to my husband and had him read.

Sigh.

You've both had the opportunity to de-escalate this. Craig, saying that two mass-murderers are better than Ken is uncalled for. And I'd suggest that you are letting your anger get the better of you. To then follow that insult with the don't talk to me thing before Ken got to respond to that? Well, that's pissy.

I'm sure neither of you wants to spend the time or money or hassle on this, either way.

An "oops, too far" and some of the worst comments disappearing would be nice.

Have you both gotten so into the fight that you forget that the emphasis ought to be on making sure that autism research into effective remediative therapies or adequate supports for parents and families or a whole host of other things rather than on the whipping it out and comparing whose is bigger?

Now, I suspect that for one of you this several-years old internet enemyship is challenging and interesting. Banter, and such. Trash talk that men do. And if the other took it that way, it'd probably be cool. You could use each other to vent. But one of you is using this to feed his rage rather than dissipate it. It's enough.

Craig, it cannot feel physically well for you to do this. It cannot. If I struggle with keeping an ulcer at bay, at keeping migraines down to a level that's bearable, and I am not consumed with rage nor despair, then what is this doing to your body, to your psyche? Caretaking takes years off your life; it's only with the appropriate support system in place that you can minimize the physical damage to your body. I do not think you have an adequate support system for adaptive coping in place or that furiousness would not be bubbling over all over the place.

Both of you think on it some and think on me studying. Sigh.

cawill said...

My comments for him to discontinue talking to me were the first of the process to issue a cease and desist order. My lawyer is drawing up the letter as we speak.

Since he is continuing in his attempts to harass and antagonize me, I'm copying all future correspondence from him so that my lawyer can have it on record. If he wishes to continue to harass and antagonize me after I politely asked him to stop, then I will take legal action.

If he wants to play hardball? Well, I can certainly oblige him.

cawill said...

Kim, I appreciate you saying something to him about this. However, in this case, I can assure you that I am perfectly calm, cold and collected right now. At this point, I simply refuse to let him push my buttons, and any future attempt at doing so by him will result in legal action.

Now, a letter of Cease and Desist is just that; a letter. However, if he refuses to follow the recommendations on that letter (which will not be unreasonable, I assure you; they are merely recommendations not to speak to me or have further correspondence to me. I will also abide by this letter), then I will do what is necessary.

Your suggestion to take a break from each other bears merit, but I doubt he will abide by it. I'm also offering him a way out.

Your post of the Texas code concerning harassment was wise, yes. However, there was no actual threat, particularly considering my follow-up post about what I was going to be doing up there. No true mention of any lewd or sexual acts were made, either; merely innuendo.

I feel this will probably be the best course of action for both of us. It will certainly help with the civility, and I can most certainly assure you that I will make no further comments to him. It is now up to him to also abide by that suggestion.

This could all have been avoided by a simple apology on his part.