11/02/2009

Kitchen sink time: Speaking Truth to a Friend over Truth, Lies, and Bullies *** Updated***

Please note update at the bottom of the post: Craig's email to Amy Wallace is added.

Amy Wallace's Wired piece has taken on a life of its own, as has her twitter feed dealing with the letters she's received. I read one yesterday, as it wended its way through the 140 character hell of twitter and wondered if it was my friend Craig's story. I was catching up at AoA today and saw his post that it was indeed his story, only she hadn't dealt with the main point of his email.

By taking all the emails she receives and (I'm not saying she's doing this, who really knows?) and placing them into two piles: anti-vaxxers and not, she's not doing anything to address the very real fact that vaccine injuries do happen. Granted, that isn't the thrust of her article, which is that irrational fear of vaccines is putting all of us at risk (and it frakking is). The closest she comes to dealing with vaccine injuries is this: "Nobody in the pro-vaccine camp asserts that vaccines are risk-free, but the risks are minute in comparison to the alternative."

Yes, the risks are small in comparison, but they are real and being dismissive of that to the commenters who email her isn't the smartest way to handle it. It isn't. It alienates people when it really didn't have to. We need to acknowledge that there are those who get vaccinated and have a reaction, just like we need to do a better job of acknowledging the adverse events from medications. And we need to take seriously what we put into our bodies. We need to get vaccinated, aware of the small but real risk of an adverse event so that we can act quickly and proactively. We also need to be aware when we give our children medication that Stevens-Johnson Syndrome is a very real, very dangerous syndrome ( http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stevens-johnson-syndrome/DS00940).

We don't need to panic, though. We don't need to do our imitation of Chicken Little. But we do need to be informed consumers. We need to be rational. We need to be just as wary of easy cures as we are of drawing conclusions about causation where all we have is correlation. Just because two events are temporally connected does not mean that one caused the other.

We should avoid absolutist language. Scientists use it as a shorthand but know that they aren't speaking of 100% absolutes; most keep that wiggle room in the back of their minds that is open to conflicting data and do so when listening to other scientists. This confuses the shit out of those who don't have that concept in mind, and they take the absolutist short hand as  hard-core no-wiggle-room truth.

And when there are documented cases of children having vaccine injury and being diagnosed with autism, rather than being dismissive, we ought to look more closely. The scientific method needs data. Would the children who have documented vaccine injury have been diagnosed with autism regardless? Just to mention a couple cases: in the Cedillo case, it appears clear that the answer is yes; professionals testified that video footage prior to the vaccination that supposedly was at the heart of the Cedillo's case shows the child to be clearly autistic. It should be noted the Cedillo child has far more medical issues than just autism, as well. As does Polling.

Back to Craig. Craig's story is worth reading. And his points worth being truly listened to. He is not anti-vaccination. He doesn't go around inflating the risks, misinforming about the ingredients, or in general fear-mongering. He keeps some crappy company, though, so it ends up looking like he's anti-vax by asociation. Truly, unlike most at AoA, he is advocating more research into vaccine safety. He may do it with the swagger of a bully at times, and while I think the company he keeps is not the best, where's he more likely to find acceptance? Up until now, it's been at AoA.

However, Craig, having come across your comments at Orac's tonight (written predominantly Sunday night and tweaked this morning) while writing this, man, bud, you got a bee in your bonnet over Orac that doesn't let you see the hypocrisy of your response to him. The jackass whose first Wallace article involved intellectual rape gets a pass because you like him, but Orac doesn't because you don't? Yet the last time you commented to me here, it was to berate me for what you perceived to be hypocrisy? Seriously. Orac has never engaged in the overt nastiness your bud has time and time again. Admiring and emulating a bully, not good. It's important to stand up, stand against wrongs. That is so resoundingly not what this person does at all. To admire him is to want to be a member of the group not getting bullied. I have no respect for people who rally around a bully and cheer him on as he goes about terrorizing others. And you shouldn't either.

However, I digressed from what I was getting around to: Craig, if you read this, would you post your story here, your email to Amy Wallace, as well? Or give me permission to place it in the body of this post?

 Reasoned debate and civil discourse means really listening to the people who offer their perspectives.


Much as I stand up and call out the woo, the misinformation, and the truly awful at AoA, I have never divided this into a black and white debate. There are very real cases of vaccine injuries and coinciding autism diagnoses. I support the science that resoundingly says these are coincidences, but I do not dismiss the individuals, like Craig, who have gone through the horrendous experience of having a child vaccinated and then hours later having their world upended because of an adverse event. And while it is always theoretically possible that something other than the vaccine caused the adverse event that Craig's son experienced, it is reasonable to assume, within several hours of the shot, with the conclusions the doctors drew, that this was a result from the vaccine. Don't know about the autism. Don't know whether his son would have been diagnosed as autistic had there not been an adverse event. Just like I don't have any way to distinguish my son's stroke damage from his autism and how different he'd be if he hadn't had the stroke.

Somehow there has to be a way to engage these individuals who have suffered from vaccine injurie with respect for their experiences, conduct research to identify likely triggers, and thereby be able to screen children before vaccination so that this doesn't happen to other families. If we blithely throw out individuals with experiences like Craig, leave them no place but the woo-hole and hate-fest that AoA is, then we are, at the very least, alienating the parents of the children we were trying to protect in the first place: those who cannot be safely vaccinated.

Does it mean not calling out the incredible stupid when I find it? Oh hell to the no. It just means trying very hard not to demonize those who say or believe something I find based on the evidence to be steeped, dipped, battered, fried in woo.

On a closing thought, Craig, that anger of yours impedes dealing with things. Gets in the way of communicating effectively to people you disagree with, but who might actually listen to you if you didn't go in both barrels blazing all the time. Louise had an excellent idea, write a blog, channel your emotions into communicating your story. I guarantee that if you stay over at the woo-fest and get that negativism reinforced, saunter over to Orac's to spew some more, and then head back to AoA, all you're going to do is keep dialing up the mad. And I'd like to think you're smarter than that.

You always have a soft spot to come post over here. You've got my ear, and we won't do any fear-mongering or hate-mongering. And we'll leave the damn monkey virus and demonization someplace else.



Craig's email to Amy Wallace:
"It took me a while to formulate this email because I don't want to come across as hostile. To say that I am disappointed in your article is a bit of an understatement, but I'm willing to engage you diplomatically in the hopes that you will understand where many parents like myself are coming from.



The reason why there is so much anger from parents who share my views is that we are tired of being ignored. Vaccine injuries do happen, and quite probably much more often than the CDC and Offit admit. Only 10% of all doctors report to VAERS, and most of the CDC's prevalence data about how often reactions occur are gleaned from VAERS. Scientists like Offit and many others like to paint parents like me as desperate. I've been called ignorant, stupid, liar, and all manner of horrible names because of my views. I'm a long way from being an idiot. But more of that later, because it ties into a later point.


Here's my story. My son was born in 2001. By the time he was 18 months old, he was bright, happy, funny. He could walk, spoke about 30 words, and was exceeding all developmental milestones. His final words to me were, "Go Bye Bye!" on the day of his 18 month checkup. That day, he received the MMR and DTaP vaccines. That night, he began running a very high fever, was screaming these horrible, agonizing screams that raised the hair on my neck, arched his back and was completely unconsolable. My wife and I called his pediatrician, who proceeded to tell us that my son's reaction was "perfectly normal." Really?!?! Perfectly normal MY ASS!!! We brought him to the ER soon after. They performed numerous tests and, after doing a CT scan of my son's head, they were able to determine that he had neuroinflamation, or an encepalopathy.


The next day, he was listless. He hasn't spoken but maybe 5 words since. He lost the ability to walk until he was almost 3 years old. He was diagnosed with Autistic Disorder at 26 months. He is 8 years old now and still in diapers. We have to lock the doors, and I have to sleep in front of the front door in case he gets up and tries to leave (he loves to wander). His rages are sometimes so violent that we have to force his sisters to leave the room in case he tries to attack them. His rages can be so violent that he can, in the throes of his anger, lift his 6'4", 230 lb father off of the floor. This is what parents like me have to deal with EVERY DAY!! This is what our life is like. There is no other explaination for his brain damage. But, doctors and Offit and, apparently, journalists like you, try to pawn it off as coincidence. They say that I confuse correlation with causation. Coincidence can't happen so often. So many parents cannot be wrong about seeing their children spiral into illness and neurological dysfunction so soon after a vaccine. But, to Offit and others, the only way they would say that it is a causal factor is if it were to happen when the needle was still in the arm of the child.


The reason I am disappointed in your article is that you spoke with so-called "experts" concerning this condition without looking at their background. Offit is biased; he was reprimanded by congress for his conflicts of interest in vaccine policy making. Here is someone who says that a newborn baby can handle 100,000 vaccines at once. The scientists you spoke to are biased. To them, my son does not exist. To them, children like Hannah Poling and Bailey Banks (2 children who were awarded by the government for iatrogenic autism) do not exist. How can anyone trust them at face value? These are people who's livelihoods rest on the success of the vaccination program. That is known as a Conflict of Interest. A truly objective journalist would have done what they could to address all sides of the problem and investigate who they were talking to.

Now, on to the threats. Everyone, on all sides of the issue, have received threats. I've had CPS called on me, because, apparently, I haven't vaccinated my children. Someone called the school that my youngest daughter goes to and asked them to investigate her vaccine status. Out of 400 children, only she was singled out because she had not received the MMR (I didn't feel it was necessary...she got both measles and the mumps as a baby, and I had her vaccinated for rubella). Painting Offit as a saint for speaking out against us dangerous and unhinged parents is a bit hypocritical considering that he and people like him do the same thing to people like us.

Please don't take it that I am angry at you; I'm not. I'm angry at the situation. I'm angry that doctors, instead of listening to their patients and asking, "what can I do to help?" paint parents with vaccine injured children as crazy, dangerous, ignorant and desperate sociopaths who are endangering everyone else around them. I have vaccinated my children. I encourage others to vaccinate. But when I question vaccine safety, or rather the lack thereof, I'm called "anti-vax" by people like you.


Tell me, how am I anti-vaccine? How am I endangering other people by encouraging them to read up on vaccine injuries. How am I endangering them by giving them as much information as possible in the hopes that their children will not have the same reaction as my son?



The true dangers to society are the individuals who put profit above the health and well-being of those they are sworn to help. All you have to do is look at the track record of companies like Merck, GSK, Bayer, or any of the Pharmaceutical companies, to see that my statement is true. My hope is that you further investigate, go further down the rabbit-hole, and see what you find.


Please be a responsible journalist.

Sincerely,


Craig Willoughby"

It should be noted that Offit was not in fact censured by Congress. This appears to be a serious mis-statement of fact by the anti-vaxxing sites. Dan Burton complaining is not the same thing as a congressional censure. While I think Wallace's treatment of your email was dismissive, it has to be noted using a known anti-vaxxing falsehood in your talking points placed you in a camp you really don't belong in.

I know you get a lot of high-fiving over there and they are great at amping up the rage. What do you get in the way of adaptive coping? In working out the anger, in grounding yourself? In making your life better? Do you walk away from that calmer, easier, with practical ideas for how to move forward?

At some point, at least some of these angry, disappointed, and hurting parents over there are going to wake up and take stock, take stock of the wave after wave of lies told over there, the militant anti-vaccination tone now taken, and sponsor after sponsor promising unrealistic and unfounded cures. We'll be here when these parents do. We won't promise false cures. We won't stoke anger. We'll promote acceptance, adaptive coping, and scientifically sound options. And we won't make a penny off of sponsors while doing it.

43 comments:

Squillo said...

Indeed, Kim. IMHO, one of the dangers of anti-vax groups is that they risk undermining the small, but real, group of people who do suffer serious adverse events from vaccination by keeping the focus so squarely on autism. It makes it too easy to dismiss most claims of vaccine damage when the loudest voices are the most unreasonable.

Heraldblog said...

Parents who suspect vaccine injury can file suit in the US Court of Claims, where the standard of evidence is set much lower than in civil court.

kathleen said...

I do hope that he gives his permission to post his story here. It does need to be heard. Louise is right-he should blog. Unfortunately, we all tend to judge each other by the company that we keep. I can not abide by much of what is written at AoA. So if someone hangs there, I automatically dismiss them as close minded bullies. That is not neccessarily the correct thing to do..I wonder how many people would/could benefit from Craigs story if it were presented in a more neutral place?

cawill said...
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KWombles said...

Thank you, Craig.

kathleen said...

Thank you for allowing Kim to post that Craig. Your point of view-your experience-everything that you wrote-so very important for people to read. "profit above health" is a horrible crime.

Heraldblog said...
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cawill said...
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KWombles said...

Crap. Civil discourse was the goal, yes. And Ken's post does seem designed to put you into a tizzy. And it could work to derail that discourse.

So, what do you want, guys? Do you want your words to stand? Either of you can delete your own posts. If I delete one, I delete the other. And I'll do it, if one if you asks me to do it, because this is an ugliness I was not hoping for.

I'd rather the two of you work it out. Deleting it doesn't fix the damage done to the accord I thought you had both come to. It just hides it from everyone else.

So, let me know, and I'll delete the two of yours and mine and make it disappear into the ether of the internet.

Craig, I wanted your email here not to belittle you, but to talk about vaccine injuries, to talk about your experience with your son. I am absolutely genuine in that and did not do so with the intent to have you attacked.

I noted the parts of your email that I thought were factually inaccurate and caused your email to be dumped with the anti-vaxxers.

KWombles said...

Spotlighting actual vaccine injuries was one of my goals with this article, and the danger in ignoring them and the people they happen to. They do happen; they shouldn't be ignored, and there ought to be a way to address them.

I noted that there were parts of Craig's email that worked to place him in a camp I don't think he is really a member of. I noted that when we don't acknowledge vaccine damages, when we don't hear parents, we work to drive them to the woo, to people who will give them a hell yeah and a pat on the back.

I don't think that's what we should collectively want to do. So, where does that leave us?

I had thought that collectively Craig and Ken had made some progress to really talking. I know, testosterone, being right, getting a dig in, and all that guy stuff, right? Sometimes, it really derails things.

I'm trying to keep balanced here in my head the rage that Craig has to feel, the sense of acceptance he gets at AoA, his outrage at having his experiences thrown back in his face, and keep that separate from the the misinformation that AoA has spread. They are separate. They should be separate.

I'm trying to see the people beneath the words. And it's obvious that Ken and Craig's relationship just took three steps or more back. And it's a damn shame, because Craig, despite using some information that isn't accurate (we believe what we read; the more we read it, the more we believe it-- see Daniel Gilbert for more on that), is not against vaccination.

Craig wants acknowledgment that vaccine injury occurs. I don't see why that's hard to do. Vaccine injuries happen. We need to look at those. We need to study those. We understand them. And we need to support the people involved, emotionally, etc.

Same thing goes for parents who are hit with a diagnosis of autism. Support and acceptance.

Now, somehow, we have to successfully combat woo and psuedoscience, and ideally we do it so that we don't alienate everyone who's into the woo. Right?

Craig, my email is wombles@sbcglobal.net, if you have anything you wish to convey privately (and I mean confidentially). I'm sorry for any offense you took, and I hope that collectively we can get the conversation on track to really look at vaccine injuries and how to acknowledge those. How to support families.

It ought to be possible to find a way to converse civilly while disagreeing on some things. So, let's give it another go, please, all?

kathleen said...

Yeah...thats a shame..you guys ought to exchange emails and go back and forth in private-not on Kims space. I was hoping for some discussion as well..we all need to talk-really. I want things for my kids-services, supports, a lot of things...this type of fighting is not going to help our children, or anyone else on the spectrum. I really am interested in hearing Craigs story-I was hoping for some honest dialogue. We need to be listening-and really hearing what people are saying.

cawill said...
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Heraldblog said...
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KWombles said...

I can understand that welling of anger at the thought that someone has attacked your child, your child's experience. I had that over the summer with the whole Best and Powered by, and a story I wrote about my Rosie. So, I get that and how you would feel that way when your son's vaccine injury is denied.

I do. And I wonder, as Squillo wrote earlier, how much harder it is for families for vaccine-injured children to get acceptance, support, etc. from the communities, from physicians, etc because of the unfortunate autism/vaccine mess and the very real damage that the actual anti-vaxxing people (standardized spelling on that term, as a side note, would be nice-- I'll look it up later and see if there is one) cause.

You know that I've commented many times that this a complex issue and it's unfair and inaccurate to lump folks into two groups.

It's important to separate the rhetoric from the actual experience.

Your email to Wallace mixes the rhetoric (some of it unfortunately inaccurate) with your very real experience.

And it lets people focus on the rhetoric and not on the story. Tell the story, Craig, of your son and your family, in one place, just the details, the feelings, the emotions. Place it on a blog of your own or send it to me and I will post it, and let's work together to understand people's experiences minus the rhetorical framework. Let's see the people and the pain and the fear that underlies these experiences when a child is suddenly stricken.

Twice with my son, with a blood infection and a stroke, I sat beside his bed, lay in his bed and held him, and wondered if he would die. The fear can be sufficating. And to have that sudden event be life altering, permanently changing your child, is terrifying. And to have someone tell you that didn't happen; well, that doesn't happen when it's a stroke. And I suspect that it wouldn't happen to you, Craig, if autism wasn't attached.

Now, I'm not saying that vaccines cause autism, but I do believe that there are parents who are posting at AoA who truly have cases of vaccine triggered damages. I also believe that there are correlationally related events. But I'd bet money that there are even more parents who have decided it must have been the vaccines because they heard about it, not because their child suffered an adverse event within a day of vaccination. For many, it is a, oh, my child has autism and oh, he had his MMR a few months ago.

Weeding out and acknowledging true vaccine injuries seems important. Seems vital. Because if your child had an adverse reaction, then we want to protect that child with herd immunity, since he shouldn't get vaccinated again. Folks who are anti-vaxxers are hurting those who have really been damaged.

It's time for good hard looks at the science. It's time to really look at the facts and it's time to turn a critical eye on the anti-vaccine groups. Because they hurt those who can't be protected by vaccination.

Heraldblog said...

Craig, you repeated a lie. Paul Offit was not censured by Congress. The inference that you are "a liar" is yours alone. I did not call you an "idiot", and certainly did not attack your son. There is no reason to threaten violence, or to resort to petty name calling. I suspect you are better than that.

cawill said...
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KWombles said...

Okay, I'm going to bed now.

Last thoughts of the day, better angels. You know what I'm saying. Look inside and find them. Don't let anger derail the conversation; don't let it be the over-riding you fuel yourself on.

I like getting fired up, I do; a good cause, an injustice, and I'm raring to go. Too much fire in the belly burns you up, Craig. Too much.

So, I'm asking you to breathe. And hug someone you love. And talk to me in the morning. A positive thing, a joyful thing. Something about your son you love, you cherish, you admire. Make your son real for us, Craig.

Remember, I start my day with the blog, tidy things up, answer what I can, post a little something; it's what I'm doing even before my coffee is finished brewing. So, let's start my day, your day, everyone who comes here, off right, on a positive note. I'm starting a new post at the top so it will be there for everyone.

One thing joyful.

Heraldblog said...

OK, Craig. Fair enough. If "everyone here" agrees that I intended to insult you, then I will apologize. And if not, then you can man up to repeating a lie about Paul Offit.

Do we have a deal?

cawill said...
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Heraldblog said...
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KWombles said...

Craig, you do recognize your tone is at this point completely out of proportion to his post, even given the history?

Breathe. And then reread these comments, including yours. And try for a moment to read your posts as if they belonged to someone else. This is not how you want to be seen. This derails your son's story. Your story.

Breathe. Please.

cawill said...
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cawill said...
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Heraldblog said...

And you are delusional. One more time: I did not call you a liar, and I did not attack your son. But my offer stands: if you can get "everyone else" to validate your paranoid fever dream, I will apologize. In the meanwhile, you need to man up and apologize for spreading a lie about Offit. It's really very simple.

cawill said...
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Heraldblog said...

That should make my offer a no-brainer, since I'm not demanding anything.

cawill said...
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kathleen said...

I'm going to jump in here for a second Craig...and this is in no way meant as disrespect-it is my story..Also, because maybe just maybe you will see why your story-was important to me-and to others...your story being told in a neutral place.
In some things we share some of the same situations with our children. I have three on the spectrum. My oldest was the the brightest baby I had ever seen-early development in everything-small three word sentences at 10 months..at a year it started going away-really gradual..I noticed it, but was not taken seriously as well..He lost all language, all eye contact, interaction-gone. It took two years to get a firm diagnosis-two years of going from specialist to specialist-trying to figure out what was going on. Being told I was a "new mom" and didn't know what I was talking about..being told I was over reacting.. So I do indeed know exactly what you are talking about. We share common ground-just a difference in how we got there. It is the common ground I'm interested in talking about. The common ground that can effect change. I only told you a little of my families story-but from what I read of yours..we have much in common...I am just saying that I have stood where you have stood. I have chosen not to be angry-wait! I am not criticising-just speaking my experience. Anger, vitriol, bitterness and fighting-what do they accomplish? Nothing good. I will always fight for my kids-but not with anger-because it drives people away-or as kim put.."derails your story"

Louise said...

Well hells bells Miss Kim! I'm seein a whole lot a anger at other people! Don't it just shake my behind from here ta west Texas! And it is a firm behind! Just wonderin how the kids fit in t'all a this? Mind ya, I aint talkin bout you or miss Kathleen..Craig darlin! You is gonna give yerself one a them anurisms! Boy howdy an a side 'o cardiac arrests! You is ornerier than a legless rabbit on viagra! Good lord an a side 'o artery cloggin butter! Breathe darlin! You is gonna hurt yourself! Miss Louise is here..she'll whup everyone inta line!

cawill said...
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Louise said...

Well I'ma feelin better after hearin from ya an such. Glad your o.k. an such. Too much stress can knock us all on our behinds..whether they is ample or not! Thats for damn true!I'll tell y'all what I does when the dumbass stress gits ta me..I teach me some courses down at tha senior center. Got me a group called tha silver foxes..I teach me a class called "pole dancin for the horizontily challenged" "The Karma sutra, hip replacement an you" and this week I'm doin a seminar called "just cause ya met E.D. don't mean he's gotta move in with y'all" I find it helps when the stress gets ta me.
I'm glad yer just a simmerin now Craig. I enjoy your company at Miss Kims..

Heraldblog said...

Thanks for taking good care of my buddy Craig, Louise. I can tell he's among friends, and if he was under a psychiatrist's care for his delusions and rage, this would be just what the p-doc ordered!

cawill said...
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Heraldblog said...

Here is my original comment, which I thoughtlessly deleted out of deference to our host. Craig, I apologize for taking it down, and I don't blame you for spinning my action in a way that confirms your darkest suspicions. That's how you roll.

I made one significant edit: I switched "lie" to "line", because not every untrue thing is a lie. Lot's of untrue things can be true if you repeat them enough. Weapons of mass destruction. Vaccines contain anti-freeze. The Cubs will win the National League pennant next year. It's all good, right?

It has finally seeped into my thick, canine brain that you were just repeating what you've heard so many times that you just knew - really, really believed - that it had to be true. Our beliefs can seem very real to us, which means they are real, which means that everything you say is true if you say it enough. This may just be the dog in me sniffing around for a way to keep you from going postal, but there it is. I said it.
_____

Craig's letter is just another thinly disguised repetition of anti-vaccine talking points. How many of these have we seen? The "Paul Offit was censured" line is just one of many significant misrepresentations and baseless assumptions packed into his letter. No wonder Wallace tossed it in the slush pile. When Craig tells us he's angry "at the situation", he really means "lack of evidence", and everyone who points out that "up" is not the same as "down".



We're just supposed to believe everything he says. People who ask questions are big meanies, and contradictory evidence is always fabricated, usually by doctors whose solitary agenda is to hurt children. And all those thousands of parents who can't be wrong? Just believe them. Because all truth is decided by voice vote, and our beliefs are real, not only to ourselves, but to everybody else.

_______

cawill said...
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Heraldblog said...

Woof.

cawill said...
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KWombles said...

Okay, I've scrolled down without looking at the last 11 comments made by Craig or Ken. I read Kathleen's and Louise's when they came across in the email. But I haven't looked yet at whatever the guys have put across since mid-morning. I'm going to look now. And then I will comment. The only reason I'm doing it tonight is because Thursday's are my hell days and I have an anatomy and physiology test on Friday, so I'm not going to take my hell day, add in studying, and add this to the top of it.

So, I'm hoping when I start reading that you've both acted reasonably, that I'm pleasantly surprised that you've responded substantively to each other.

If you haven't, let me make the suggestion that one of you opens a blog just for the two of you to keep slugging away at each other. Hell, I'll even do it for you: the Kenny-Craig Fight-fest. Don't like the name, start hashing one out.

In the meantime there's at least two posts over at Huff begging for the kind of slugging away that gets you both excited. I'll be there Friday afternoon.

I'm going to read now. Please let me be pleasantly surprised.

KWombles said...

I'm sorry. I know I'm twisted. Got it over there to the side in my list of names. But ya'll cracked me up with today's work. Not as bad as I thought. Funny as shit in some places.

Okay. I think the two of you need each other or you'd have parted company long ago. You obviously relieve pent up pressure for each other and it may be that you each operate as a pressure valve for the other.

Maybe. I still think the two of you need your own blog. Formalize the relationship; use it cathartically, you know the new Hannity and Colmes (that was a painful show to watch in so many ways). I'd even set it up and play referree with the two of you. Think of it, all sides on one blog. The trouble we could get into.

Now, seriously. Craig, what your story look like without the rhetoric from AoA, some of it I've conclusively demonstrated to be inaccurate information? Just your family's story. No theories as to causation. No AoA talking points. No hate, no rage. Just the story. The whole story.

How long has it been since you've separated the details from the narrative you've overlaid on it?

How long since you've just told the story without the goal of convincing someone about the vaccines, without going into the story half-cocked and ready for rejection?

Tell me your story, Craig. Tell me your son's story. What was he like? What was that night, after the vaccination, when he started running fever? What were the next months like? What happened? How did you feel? The story, Craig, and then I bet you, not just me, but others, like Kathleen, will be willing to share our stories, stories that don't deal with causes, but deal with the events. Let's see what we have in common without rhetoric and ideology getting in the way.

I'm going to start a new blog post for this. I encourage all readers to share their stories in this. If you need more space because the comment limit gets in your way, email me your story at wombles@sbcglobal.net and I'll put it in the main blog.

Let's do some work, folks, work that matters, that makes a difference, instead of the same old stuff.

cawill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fido said...

Arf.

cawill said...

What, Kenny....you want a scratch under the chin now? Go talk to your keeper; I'm sure he'll be willing to oblige.

That is, by far, the most intelligent thing I've seen you write yet.

Thelma said...

Why are you making the comments disappear, Craig? Lordy, but that's some interestin things ta do. Now, just as an aside, what with that Kim bein such a bright gal, I bet she does like me an has all them comments emailed ta her. So I reckon she could check ta see what it is ya making go bye-bye, why sorta like them Age of Fools an that Huff Kim was talkin about.

Sure an I remember this be the cussin hissy fits ya was havin, huh?