I just know me and Dr Jay are gonna be buds!

So, yesterday I wandered over to Orac's and entered into the wonderful dialectic with Dr Jay Gordon. Gods, what fun. And he just gave me the best birthday present a gal could wish for, when I wandered back over today to see what was new.

I posted this yesterday:

Dr. Gordon,
Since you've changed your mind on chelation, you'll be prominently displaying on your website that you no longer consider chelation to be a therapy that parents with children with autism should consider and you will refuse to administer it? In addition, you'll be using your Huff blogger status and your newfound knowledge, right, to create a new article on why chelation is not something that should be used and you'll post it to Huff sometime this week, right? It seems the only reasonable thing to do.
And really, could your website be any more narcissistic? You are a panderer. I suppose that's fine for your rich client base, but I want a pediatrician who knows what he's doing, does the necessary literature review in frigging medical journals and makes evidence-based decisions where possible. And exercises some restraint where there isn't clear science. And admits when he's out on a limb and arms me with the necessary tools to come to a decision together about treatment for my children.
You can do better and you should. If you had any self-respect, you'd spend some time reading all of the relevant literature on vaccines and on autism before you shamelessly tool yourself out with Jenny McCarthy.
I feel better now. Thanks.
Posted by: KWombles June 21, 2009 9:31 PM

And then this when he went all pissy on Kathleen:

Dr. Gordon,
Kathleen is not anonymous. Click on her name and it takes you to her blog. Heck, for that matter, click on mine and it takes you to my blog, where I link to my website and offer my credentials (I know, just a lowly adjunct instructor of psychology and English, but hey, what are you going to do?).
Kathleen was not nasty to you (I'm not sure you know what nasty is if you think this was-- try being called a baby killer by an anti-vaxxer because I support vaccinationm that's nasty).
I would respectfully submit, sir, that I want my pediatrician learning from medical journals, conferences, opportunities for continuing education, from other doctors with more experience, etc. Not from a blog, for all that I bow in deference to Orac's wisdom.
And, Dr. Gordon, I guarantee you I'd speak exactly the way I do online in person. One of the privileges in being mother to three on the spectrum who speak their minds is that it has decidedly rubbed off.
Oh, and I have never been financially stressed because of my children's autism. It's called ponying up and doing the hard work, working with the school system to get the services they can provide and then spending all my spare time, close to forty plus hours per week working one on one with each my children to improve their eye contact, their compliance, their social skills, to reduce their stimming behaviors in situations where those behaviors get in the way. Not a penny required except for that spent buying textbooks second hand on ABA and cognitive behavioral therapy and autism. Just bucketloads of time, effort, and sheer determination to help them achieve their potential.
It doesn't go unnoticed you answered none of my comments to you.
I do applaud that you wish to learn more. You should have done that BEFORE you went out on the circuit with Jenny.
Posted by: KWombles June 21, 2009 10:45 PM

So, Dr. Jay has his knickers seriously twisted. I mean, seriously.

His response to Kathleen, me, and others:

"Stupid! I wrote a really wonderful post and just lost it trying to solve Kathleen's anonymity by clicking on her name while I was in the midst of writing. You live in the USA, Kathleen. I have discovered that fact
Kim Wombles is not anonymous.
Both of you have very personal experience with ASD.
Kim, take education wherever you can get it. Scientific journals or here. I respect what you do and I respect the attitude you have regarding ASD families. Children and parents. You and have Kathleen have some pretty mediocre social skills, though. You are just as unpleasant on your home court as you are here.
Kathleen, you are boring. Repetitious, rude, insulting and boring. Perseveration and speaking louder don't make your ideas more interesting.
I'm very happy you've not felt the financial strain of dealing with autism. Most of the patients I see are not wealthy enough to have skipped that aspect of caring for their children.
Some of the people here have spent their lives in disciplines other than mine and I am learning a lot from them. What a jerk I am for admitting that and subjecting myself to your witty remarks about my changing my opinions because I acquire new knowledge and perspectives.
Scientizzle, every time I thank someone I get my head handed to me again, but, thanks for understanding what I'm doing here. We all have core beliefs but there certainly details which can shift around.
Good Night, All!
Posted by: Jay Gordon, MD, FAAP June 22, 2009 3:04 AM

My response (and thank you, Orac, for not moderating!):

Dr. Jay,
This isn't a popularity contest, and Countering Age of Autism isn't about warm fuzzies. Go to Detritus, at kwombles.blogspot.com for that. Countering is exactly that; standing up against the incredible horseshit AoA puts out day after day. There is no pleasant way to state to someone that not only is the information being dispensed wrong, it is endgangering public safety, and it is putting forth a completely bogus perspective on what autism is. I have no need to be pleasant to people who villify me for standing up to speak out against them. Trust me, I started on this road providing evidence in a neutral, objective, and even soft-hearted manner and in return was attacked, called a baby-killer, called pro-autism, called a deranged word twister, etc. I've got me a fine thick skin and these words, coming from the likes of the folks who're saying it, well, it makes me no nevermind, if you ken me? Just as your post full of puffed up moral outrage and the need to tell me my social skills are "mediocre" at the same time you name call Kathleen doesn't much bother me either.
I suggest you get a thicker skin or get out of the limelight. You don't get to align yourself with a segment of the autistic community that sees their children as vaccine damaged goods, as soulless shadows, and then offer them treatments to recover their children that have no known efficacy and get a blank check on that one. You want to educate yourself on what researchers actually know about autism, then pick up the nearly 1500 page Handbook of Autism and Pervasive Developmental Disorders 3rd edition, Coleman's (2005) The Neurology of Autism, and Bauman & Kemper's The Neurobiology of Autism.
And I said in my first post, my three children have taught me that being genuine at all times comes in handy. You'll always know exactly where you stand with me, and isn't that a lovely thing?
So, you'll be fixing your website to reflect your updated knowledge, right? I'll be the first to offer you kudos for it and for writing a new blog for Huff stating categorically that you've realized you were wrong about a lot of the autism/vaccine controversy.


kathleen said...

That was just WONDERFUL! You and I both know that he will read it..he is too arrogant not to! I have to go look more closely at his web site...I feel a parody might be coming. I'm glad as well that Orac didn't moderate you-though I don't see why he would...especially after the vitriol that Jay was spewing. I was so tame compared to many others-I really must have either hit a nerve or was perceived as an easy target( I do believe that I held my own)...I do hope he looks at my re-vamped profile...:)

Sirenity said...

Good job ladies!! Good job.